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81
General Discussion / Re: Scott Aniol on x
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 31, 2024, 09:54:33 am »
So lemme get this straight: It wasn't a mockery of the Lord's Supper, it was just a celebration of the Greek god of drunken orgied performed by gross drag queens and a child, and that's ... better?

(It was a mockery of the Lord's Supper, by the way.)
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New Board / Anti Postmill views
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 29, 2024, 04:41:01 pm »
TGC
Between Two Worlds
JUSTIN TAYLOR

What Does the Great Commission Mean When It Says to Disciple a Nation?
JUSTIN TAYLOR
In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands the church to “disciple all the nations” (μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη). He has the authority to give the command (28:18) and he will enable and empower the mission with his presence (28:20). King Jesus did not give his people an assignment they will fail to complete.

Jeremy Sexton, a pastor of Christ the King Church in Springfield, Missouri, writes that every eschatological view agrees with this, but “Postmillennialists hold that this phrase envisages the conversion of entire people groups, the Christianization of all nations as nations.”

And at first glance, this seems like it could be plausible:

After all, “the nations” (τὰ ἔθνη) describes people groups.

Moreover, “all the nations” (πάντα τὰ ἔθνη) follows the verb “disciple” (μαθητεύσατε) as its direct object.

So, infer postmillennialists, Jesus does not merely command his church to disciple individuals within the nations; he more specifically directs us to disciple the nations qua nations.

Exegesis, however, is the Achilles’ heel of postmillennialism, and the claim does not hold up to scrutiny.

Sexton offers four arguments against their reading. I want to reproduce one of them, since it alone seems sufficient to establish the case:

The clause “disciple all the nations” implicitly contains a reference to individuals; it means “disciple individuals from all the nations.” . . .

And the rest of the Great Commission confirms that the church’s disciple-making mission, like the one described in Isaiah 66:19–20, targets persons rather than political units.

Immediately after our Lord issues his directive to “disciple all the nations,” he expands on what he means: “baptizing them … teaching them” (Matt 28:19–20).

“Them” (αὐτούς) is a masculine personal pronoun that refers not to the nations as such, since ἔθνη (“nations”) is a neuter noun, but to individuals from the nations.

If the author had wanted to describe “the collective conversion of national groups,” then “αὐτά, the neuter plural pronoun, would be expected rather than αὐτούς.”

The antecedent of “them,” persons, is contained implicitly in the clause “disciple all the nations.”

Indeed, the objects of the discipling that Jesus has in mind are persons qua persons, those who can be baptized into the Triune name and be taught to obey, for “baptism and instruction in obedience belong to discipleship.”

A nation qua nation cannot experience the personal discipleship in view any more than it can receive Trinitarian baptism.

The point is not that there can be no such thing as a genuinely Christian nation in this age. The point is that Matthew 28:18–20 envisions no such thing. The aim of the Great Commission, concludes Carson, “is to make disciples of all men everywhere, without distinction.”

David Schrock—pastor for preaching and theology at Occoquan Bible Church in Woodbridge, Virginia—addresses the same issue in his essay on Postmillennialism and Theonomy.

He points out that when Jesus  uses that word “nation” in Matthew 28:19, he could be using it in one of two ways:

He could be using it as a collective singular, such that he’s really referring to the members of all nations. Matthew does this, for instance, when he writes, “Then Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan were going out to him” (3:5). Matthew doesn’t mean the entire city of Jerusalem, or everyone in the region of Judea, was going out to be baptized by John. Rather, a large number of people from the city and the state were seeking baptism.

Conversely, Jesus could be treating the word more as a proper singular, as when one says, “Germany declared war on America.” Many postmillennials seem to treat “nation” in the latter way, declaring that the whole country can or should seek baptism. . . .

Like Sexton, Schrock shows that Jesus must have been referring to a collective singular, rather than a proper singular, because of the switch from the neuter “nation” (ethnē) to the masculine “them” (autous). “Them”—that is, the member of the nation—is personal.

This part-of-the-whole rendering interpretation fits with Revelation 5:9, which refers to a final heavenly people “from” all nations.

Moreover, it fits with the way disciples are made in the book of Acts. Individuals, not city-states, are converted—even as city-states are impacted by the gospel.

Schrock also probes some of the assumptions behind their idiosyncratic interpretive move:

Postmillennialism . . . sacralizes the temporary nations of this world—in large part because many postmillennialists see nations as intrinsic to creation and not a result of the fall. Space does not permit that discussion here, but suffice it to say, I am less optimistic that nations should derive their origin story from creation. I would place that story in Genesis 3–11, not Genesis 1–2.

If God is making one new man (Eph. 2:15), one household of faith (1 Tim. 3:15), one chosen race, and one holy nation (1 Pet. 2:9–10), then it follows that from all the nations (Rev. 5:9) God is creating one eternal people. The new creation restores to nature what was lost by the fall—namely, the unity of humanity.

For more details, and for a wider discussion, all three pieces are worth consulting:

Jeremy Sexton, Postmillennialism: A Biblical Critique.
Jeremy Sexton, Postmillennialism: A Reply to Doug Wilson.
David Schrock, Postmillennialism and Theonomy.
83
General Discussion / Re: Toby Sumpter On X
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 29, 2024, 10:47:10 am »
The Olympic drag queen last supper is hardly surprising and Christians have endured far worse. Certainly no cause for panic breathing into paper bags. But the love of Christ and His people compels strong indignation like David when Goliath taunted the armies of the living God.
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People who say we need revival for any significant change in this nation are right because we cannot accomplish anything apart from God’s blessing. But if some say we cannot do anything until most of the nation is saved, they are wrong. God can give deliverance with many or few.
84
New Board / What is the Sabbath
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 28, 2024, 12:30:35 pm »
How (and How Not) to Keep the Sabbath
October 25, 2022by: Guy Prentiss Waters

This article is part of the How (and How Not) series.

What Is the Sabbath?
Imagine that you are walking in the neighborhood of a busy city and someone flags you down from the stoop of their brownstone. The homeowner is waving with some urgency, so you stop to see what they want. “Can you come in the house and change out my lightbulb?” they ask you. “Why do you need me to change out your lightbulb?” you reply. “Because I’m Jewish, it’s the Sabbath, and I can’t work on the Sabbath. The house is dark and we need the bulb changed. I figured that since you were a Gentile, you wouldn’t have a problem with doing it.”

Something very much like that happened to a friend of mine many years ago (and he gladly changed the bulb). I suspect that it captures many of the impressions that Christians often have about the Sabbath—It’s just for Israel, but it’s not for the Church. The Sabbath is legalistic and stifling because it burdens people with unreasonable, man-made rules. I am free from the law in Christ, so why would I ever think about observing the Sabbath?

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The Sabbath as Rest and Hope for the People of God
Guy Prentiss Waters
In this addition to the Short Studies in Biblical Theology series, Guy Prentiss Waters provides a study of the Sabbath, from creation to consummation.

It is tempting to rush into discussions about what to do (and not to do) on the Sabbath. But before we get there, there are a couple of questions that we need to ask. First, what is the Sabbath? The Sabbath is a weekly day that God has appointed for human beings to rest from the labors and activities that fill out the other six days and to devote that day to the worship of God and fellowship with his people. The Hebrew word underlying the English word sabbath means “rest.” The Sabbath is a day of holy resting, of spiritual refreshment in God. We see God establishing the Sabbath at creation. He completed his works of creation in six days, and then he “rested on the seventh day” (Gen. 2:2). That “seventh day” was a day that God “blessed” and “made . . . holy” (Gen. 2:3), that is, a day set apart for people to worship God.

In the life of Israel, the Sabbath takes on added meaning. In Deuteronomy 5:12–15, God tells his people that the Sabbath is a day to “remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm” (Deut. 5:15). It is a day to remember the mighty work of God in redeeming his people. Since the Exodus always pointed forward to God’s work in redeeming his people from their sin through Jesus Christ, the Sabbath, therefore, commemorates what God has done in Christ to save sinners.

Should We Still Observe?
Second, is the Sabbath something that Christians should observe? Some may interject at this point, What you have been saying is all well and good, but that’s the Old Testament. What about the New Testament? That is an excellent question, and the New Testament affirms the Sabbath as a standing commandment for all people. Jesus taught often about the Sabbath. In the Gospels, we see him correcting misunderstandings of the Sabbath. The religious leaders of Jesus’s day had taken a commandment that was to be a joy and had turned it into a miserable burden. Again and again, Jesus clears up the true meaning, intent, and purpose of the Sabbath. He is able to do this because “the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath” (Matt. 12:8). Far from abolishing the Sabbath, Jesus reaffirms and clarifies the true meaning of the Sabbath.

The epistle to the Hebrews argues that the Church, like Israel, is on wilderness pilgrimage (Heb. 3:1–4:13). We have been delivered from Egypt (sin) but have yet to enter the land of promise (heaven). We are awaiting, the author stresses, the “Sabbath rest” that “remains . . . for the people of God” (Heb. 4:10). That future rest is something we must “strive to enter” in the here and now (Heb. 4:11). To be sure, Hebrews is not here talking about Sabbath day observance. But if heaven is our future “Sabbath rest,” then we surely continue to observe the weekly Sabbath as a reminder of and help to pursue that Sabbath rest that lies ahead of us.

We should also remember that the Sabbath is an ordinance of the creation. It is, therefore, for all human beings in all times. But the New Testament tells us of an important change that Sabbath observance has undergone in light of the death and resurrection of Jesus. Israel gathered to worship God on the seventh day of the week, according to God’s command. In the New Testament, we see the church meeting together on the first day of the week, under the supervision of the apostles and therefore according to the command of Christ (see Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor. 16:2). Why the change in day? Because it is on the first day of the week that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. As the Sabbath before the resurrection commemorates God’s work of creation, the Sabbath after the resurrection additionally commemorates God’s work of new creation (2 Cor. 5:7).

What Should Observance Look Like?
Knowing, then, what the Sabbath is and what it is for, we are in a position to think about what it looks like to keep the Sabbath. First—in order and importance—the Sabbath is the day each week that God calls us to set apart for public worship and for Christian fellowship. When we gather with God’s people every Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10), we are gathering to do what God created and redeemed us to do: worship him. In doing so, we are preparing to meet with God and to receive blessing from him. We should take every opportunity that we have on this day to join God’s people in gathered worship and to enjoy the fellowship of our fellow believers.

Every week, the Sabbath gives us a powerful counternarrative—the truth about God, ourselves, and what this life is all about.


Remember what the Sabbath does. It reminds us of first things (creation, redemption, consummation), of who God is, who we are, and where we are going. All week long, the world bombards us with a welter of narratives that try to answer questions like Who am I? Why am I here? What is life for? Every week, the Sabbath gives us a powerful counternarrative—the truth about God, ourselves, and what this life is all about.

To observe the Sabbath and receive the benefit that God has prepared for us, we must be prepared to set down certain things that God would have us set down. God calls us to refrain from the work and other activities that fill up Monday through Saturday. Of course, Jesus recognizes that there are certain kinds of work that are unavoidable on Sunday (see his teaching in Matt. 12:1–13). If you’re a police officer or a nurse and you are called into work on Sunday, you may do that. If you are about to leave the house for church and your daughter becomes sick, take care of your daughter. But if we understand what the Sabbath is, and if we “call the Sabbath a delight” (Isa. 58:13), then we will make these kinds of decisions with the right attitude and spirit.

Observing the Sabbath is something that looks strange to our 24/7 world. But it is a powerful testimony to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. In a world where people are often mastered by their calendars, Christians declare that Jesus Christ is Lord over their calendars. We gladly obey Christ knowing that every command of his is “easy” and “light” (Matt. 11:30) and only for our good. When we set apart the first day of the week, we are declaring openly that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. We are testifying to his saving work for sinners. We are no less declaring the reality of the “rest” that awaits us in the consummation—the fullness of the blessing, life, and glory in Christ. Observing the Sabbath is a profound declaration of the gospel—its truth, its importance, and its claim on our hearts and lives. In doing so, we are saying that God, our Maker and Redeemer, is altogether worthy of our worship, devotion, and praise.

So, what are you doing next Sunday?

Guy Prentiss Waters is the author of The Sabbath as Rest and Hope for the People of God.


Guy Prentiss Waters (PhD, Duke University) is James M. Baird Jr. Professor of New Testament and academic dean at Reformed Theological Seminary, Jackson. He is the author or editor of fifteen books and numerous chapters, articles, and reviews. He is a teaching elder in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA).
85
General Discussion / Re: Darrel Harrison
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 27, 2024, 11:10:23 pm »
The Olympics have officially been queered. May God protect the athletes who have trained most of their life simply to compete, not to be indoctrinated. #Olympic2024

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Darrell B. Harrison*
@D_B_Harrison
I have to say I'm a bit perplexed that so many professing Christians seem to be taken aback by the egregiously anti-Christian spectacle put on today during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. How else would you expect the enemies of Christ to behave? Jesus warns us about such people in John 8:44a, saying, "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father."

The preposition "of" in John 8:44 is significant in that it denotes nature, character, and disposition. In other words, these people are literally the spiritual children of the devil and, as such, reflect in their deeds the character, disposition, and nature of their father. Knowing this, it should not startle or astonish us that the Olympics would openly display such blasphemous mockery of Christians and their God - the only true God (John 17:3) - knowing that it is their nature to do so (2 Peter 3:3).

As followers of Jesus Christ, what we should respond with is pity, for these children of the devil do not realize that, unless God mercifully grants them repentance (2 Peter 3:9), they are storing up wrath for themselves at the hands of the very God against whom they have dared to demonstrate such arrogant derision (John 3:36; Galatians 6:7).
86
General Discussion / Joel Webbon
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 27, 2024, 06:40:52 pm »
France will be judged for its rejection of Christ and embrace of perversion.

In 20 years, Islam will have completely consumed France, and it will show no mercy to the sexual deviants.

God uses foreign nations, who worship foreign gods, as his rod of punishment for apostates.I don’t want non-Christians in charge because I love them.

Secular humanists inevitably destroy themselves and others when they hold power.
87
General Discussion / Re: Toby Sumpter On X
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 27, 2024, 10:39:35 am »
10 Thoughts on the Olympic Opening Blasphemy

1. There is no neutrality - secularism is a lie. You will either serve the Living God or some other false god. You will either love God the Father and His only Son Jesus Christ or else you will hate Him and His people. And the same is true for nations and cultures. Nations will serve Christ or demons. And if they refuse to serve Christ, if they insist on neutrality and secularism, they are insisting on demons and destruction in the long run.

2. Proverbs says that all who hate wisdom love death. That death will be pictured in celebrating obesity, sexual suicide through perverse fruitlessness, venereal diseases and STDs, and behind it all, the corpses of millions of babies mutilated and tossed away in the trash. You cannot reject the wisdom of the Creator and remain sane for very long. The madness of Darwinism is coming to fruition. If we evolved from pond scum, life is meaningless and why can’t we evolve into whatever gender or species we want? And why can't truth, beauty, and justice evolve into whatever we want?

3. When people hate God they deface His image. God’s image is revealed in the glorious duality and binary of male and female. The neutering and “transing” of the image of God is an attack on God Himself. Marriage for life between one man and one woman is the central picture of this harmony. Every attack on marriage and the marriage bed is therefore an attack on the living God and His image in man.

4. There will always be blasphemy laws. And inversely, this means that there will always be some gods it is permissible to mock. But if the opening ceremony had featured a mockumentary moment of Mohammed and Islam, the Parisian streets would be full of violence right now. All false religions ultimately turn violent because their gods are deaf, dumb, blind, and powerless. The adherents of false religions must use force and violence to accomplish their ends (and then credit their false god, sometimes named “justice” or “equality”). Christians are not rioting in the streets because we serve the Living God, but because He is the true God, we want His name honored in the public square. And if His name is not honored, it will ultimately be mocked.

5. Of course pagans will pagan, but this blasphemy should still grieve us since France was once a Christian nation and because many will be crushed by this worldview. “Hot indignation seizes me because of the wicked who forsake your law” (Ps. 119:53). There was at least one child in that table ****, and that was no accident. Think pedophilia. Think chemical castrations and mastectomies, and remember: if children can consent to sex change operations, they can consent to sexual relationships. That is the play. But also think adultery, divorce, abortion, and the destruction of families feeding more addictions and crime. The open mockery of Christianity is also a warmup for persecution of Christians. While we must be willing to be persecuted, we must not willingly allow our world to prepare to do that to us or our children or grandchildren. Loving our enemies means trying to stop them from greater acts of evil.

6. Some are asking: do we need Christian revival or do we need to regain power and crush this? And the answer is “yes.” And true revival would crush this because repentance means putting the old man to death, it means private and public repentance of sin. Unfortunately, “revival-ism” has come to mean vague, private, spiritual feelings in a tent instead of wholesale reformation. But seizing political power apart from the Holy Spirit can only provide a momentary check to this kind of evil before joining the evil. As I always say, don’t join the French Revolution.

7. Speaking of evil, there is clearly something demonic about this. The fact that this deep confusion was presented as a mockery of the Last Supper indicates that they have a particular target of hate: Christ and His disciples. The demons came out screaming and taunting when Jesus came in the gospels. And to some extent, the fact that the mockery is becoming more and more explicit, may indicate a growing fear on the part of the demons. There is a growing Christian consensus that secularism is a dead end (literally). But to the previous point: You cannot defeat evil with evil. We must overcome evil with good, which includes good blasphemy laws, good cops and magistrates, and good criminal penalties for breaking the law, all grounded in God’s good law.

8. We should not miss the fact that despite the evil, God is using this to turn some people to Himself. More than one person has pointed out that the visceral hatred of Christ and Christianity led them to faith in Christ or back to the faith. Remember, it was while the prodigal son was starving for pig pods having wasted his father’s inheritance that he remembered the goodness of his Father’s house. The Christian West has blown our inheritance on all manner of hookers and booze, and therefore this is a moment for Christians to preach the gospel clearly. This is why we’re hosting http://prodigalamerica.com

9. This spectacle is also incredibly ugly and silly. Remember the old adage that it ain’t over till the fat lady sings? Well, this is pretty near the end and the bottom of the barrel. And when the nations rage and plot vain things, like the builders of Babel constructing a tower to Heaven, God sits in heaven and laughs (Ps. 2). So should we. In the long run stupidity doesn’t work. And it’s just weird and gaudy.

10. In addition to registering your thorough disdain and vowing to do everything you can to see nothing like this replicated, especially in your neighborhood, redouble your efforts to love your wife and kids and be faithful in your church and callings. Obedient love is at war with all disobedient love. Obedient love drives out the disordered loves of the world, the flesh, and the devil. Obedient love does justice, loves mercy, and walks humbly with God. Obedient love is altogether lovely.

88
General Discussion / Re: James White on X
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 27, 2024, 09:56:13 am »
@Olympics
 
@peacock
 : just so you know. Though I had intended to at least watch the road cycling competition next week, the vile attacks upon the Christian faith, the promotion of sexual perversion, and the simple hatred shown to everything good and honest and true, found in the opening ceremonies, will keep me, and every other moral person on the planet, from watching, following, or participating in any way with your evil.
89
General Discussion / Re: Joe Boot on x
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 27, 2024, 09:24:03 am »
Thought for the day from Psalm 37:1-2;9-11

“Do not fret because of evildoers,
Nor be envious of the workers of iniquity.
For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb…

For evildoers shall be cut off;
But those who wait on the Lord,
They shall inherit the earth.
For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.
But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”
90
General Discussion / Re: Darrel Harrison
« Last post by Iconoclast on July 26, 2024, 09:26:23 am »

Darrell B. Harrison*
@D_B_Harrison
·
22m
This, in my opinion, pretty much sums up Kamala Harris’ campaign platform:
1. Kill the babies
2. Take the guns
3. Groom the children
4. Open the borders
5. Redistribute the wealth
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