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71
General Discussion / Re: Joe Boot on x
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 12, 2024, 10:02:44 am »
Since the appalling lawless rioting in the UK last week, which followed the devastating murder of children in Southport, the media has talked endlessly about the “far right” - yet one looks in vain for a clear definition of “far right.” It seems to have already captured all Reform UK voters, those who think multiculturalism has failed, those opposed to mass legal & illegal migration, those concerned with the growth of Islamism & anyone who thinks police handle different groups differently when it comes to public disorder. British PM Keir Starmer himself “took the knee” for BLM who destroyed statues & public property, yet now the establishment appears to be handing out revenge sentences for people anywhere near recent disorder. These are troubling times in the UK where the parameters of permitted speech & permitted views is shrinking fast.

Glib disrespect for elders and writing off entire generations is not a mark of manhood or maturity but insolence, petulance and base ingratitude:

Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD (Lev. 19:32)

God's law trumps youthful zeal without knowledge.
72
General Discussion / Re: Doc Sandlin on X
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 12, 2024, 09:49:48 am »
The debate between baptists and paedobaptists won’t end anytime soon (much to my chagrin); but I must say, I’ve been gratified by an interesting development over the last few years: many on each side seem to be recognizing something of the significance of the guiding assumptions of the other:

More and more baptists are treating their children as covenant offspring and training them up according to God‘s covenant promises with the assumption that they belong to Him.

Paedobaptists, on the other hand, recognize the baptist-emphasized truth of intentional, voluntary discipleship, and convey to their covenant children the need for personal appropriation of the Faith, and not the assumption that he or she will simply carry on their inherited Faith.

This development has been a great blessing to my heart.
73
General Discussion / Re: James White on X
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 09, 2024, 11:14:27 am »
So, Biden's evil was at least covered over by his dementia; Harris' evil is somewhat mediated by the fact that she's an obvious ditz with a very low mental capacity; but Walz---he's just evil through and through, and there are no excuses. The bills he signed in Minnesota will follow him to the judgment seat, believe you me.  And his connections to China...he is such an obvious sock puppet for the CCP.  I guess when you own the media, you can do things like this.
74
General Discussion / Re: Joe Boot on x
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 08, 2024, 04:42:01 pm »
A message for the West today being played out before our eyes:

Your own evil will discipline you;
your own apostasies will reprimand you.
Think it over and see how evil and bitter it is
for you to abandon the Lord your God
and to have no fear of Me.
This is the declaration
of the Lord God of Hosts...

I planted you, a choice vine
from the very best seed.
How then could you turn into
a degenerate, foreign vine?

- Jeremiah 2:19,21
No surprise to see this atheist authoritarian & socialist now planning to clamp down on freedom of speech on social media…that is, speech the hard left don’t agree with. If non-criminal speech that is deemed “harmful” is banned, we might as well be China.
75
New Board / John Owen...New Heaven, New Earth
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 06, 2024, 03:19:29 pm »
John Owen-
Dr. John Owen On
The "New Heavens and Earth"
(2 Peter 3:13)
The apostle makes a distribution of the world into heaven and earth, and saith they were destroyed with water, and perished. We know that neither the fabric nor substance of the one or other was destroyed, but only men that liveth on the earth; and the apostle tells us (ver. 7) of the heaven and earth that were then, and were destroyed by water, distinct from the heavens and the earth that were now, and were to be consumed by fire; and yet as to the visible fabric of heaven and earth they were the same both before the flood and in the apostle's time, and continue so to this day; when yet it is certain that the heavens and earth, whereof he spake, were to be destroyed and consumed by fire in that generation. We must, then, for the clearing of our foundation a little, consider what the apostle intends by the heavens and the earth in these two places.
' 1. It is certain that what the apostle intends by the world, with its heaven, and earth (vers. 5, 6), which was destroyed ; the same, or some-what of that kind, he intends by the heavens and the earth that were to be consumed and destroyed by fire (ver. 7) ; otherwise there would be no coherence in the apostle's discourse, nor any kind of argument, but a mere fallacy of words.
' 2. It is certain that by the flood, the world, or the fabric of heaven and earth, was not destroyed, but only the inhabitants of the world; and therefore the destruction intimated to succeed by fire is not of the substance of the heavens and the earth, which shall not be consumed until the last day, but of person or men living in the world.
'3. Then we must consider in what sense men living in the world are said to be the world, and the heavens and earth of it. I shall only insist on one instance to this purpose among many that may be produced: Isa. li. 15, 16. The time when the work here mentioned, of planting the heavens and laying the foundation of the earth, was performed by God was when He divided the sea (ver. 15) and gave the law (ver. 16), and said to Zion, Thou art my people; that is, when He took the children of Israel out of Egypt, and formed them in the wilderness into a church and state; then He planted the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth: that is, brought forth order, and government, and beauty from the confusion wherein before they were. This is the planting of the heavens and laying the foundation of the earth in the world. And since it is that when mention is made of the destruction of a state and government, it is in that languaue which seems to set forth the end of the world. So Isa. xxxiv. 4, which is yet but the destruction of the state of Edom. The like also is affirmed of the Roman Empire (Rev. vi. 14), which the Jews constantly affirm to be intended by Edom in the prophets. And in our Saviour Christ's prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem (Matt. xxiv.) He sets it out by expressions of the same importance. It is evident, then, that in the prophetical idiom and manner of speech, by heavens and earth, the civil and religious state and combination of men in the world, and the men of them, were often understood. So were the heavens and earth that world which then was destroyed by the flood.
' 4. On this foundation I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state; for which I shall offer these two reasons, of many that might be insisted on from the text:-
'(1.) Because whatever is here mentioned was to have its peculiar influence on the men of that generation. He speaks of that wherein both the profane scoffers and those scoffed at were concerned, and that as Jews, some of them believing, others opposing, the faith. Now there was no particular concernment of that generation, nor in that sin, nor in that scoffing, as to the day of judment in general ; but there was a peculiar relief for the one and a peculiar dread for the other at hand, in the destruction of the Jewish nation ; and, besides, an ample testimony both to the one and the other of the power and dominion of tile Lord Jesus Christ, which was the thing in question between them.
'(2.) Peter tells them, that after the destruction and judgment that he speaks of (vers. 7-13), " We, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth,' etc. They had this expectation. But what is that promise? Where may we find it? Why, we have it in the very words and letter, Isa. lxv. 17. Now, when shall this be that God shall create these new heavens and new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness? Saith Peter, " It shall be after the coming of the Lord, after that judgment and destruction of ungodly men, who obey not the gospel, that I foretell." But now it is evident from this place of Isaiah, with chap. lxvi. 21, 22, that this is a prophecy of Gospel times only; and that the planting of these new heavens is nothing but the creation of Gospel ordinances to endure for ever. The same thing is so expressed Heb. xii. 26-28.
' This being the design of the place, I shall not insist longer on the context, but briefly open the words proposed, and fix upon the truth continued in them.
'First, There is the foundation of the apostle's inference and exhortation, seeing that all these things, however precious they seem, or what value soever any put upon them, shall be dissolved, that is, destroyed; and that in that dreadful and fearful manner before mentioned, in a day of judgment, wrath, and vengeance, by fire and sword; let others mock at the threats of Christ's coming: He will come- He will not tarry; and then the heavens and earth that God Himself planted, -the sun, moon, and stars of the Judaical polity and church, -the whole old world of worship and worshippers, that stand out in their obstinancy against the Lord Christ, shall be sensibly dissolved and destroyed: this we know shall be the end of these things, and that shortly.
'There is no outward constitution nor frame of things in government or nations, but it is subject to a dissolution, and may receive it, and that in a way of judgment. If any might plead exemption, that, on many accounts, of which the apostle was discoursing in prophetical terms (for it was not yet time to speak it openly to all) might interpose for its share.'*

 
 
 
76
New Board / Helpful videos
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 06, 2024, 12:06:44 pm »
77
General Discussion / Re: James White on X
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 03, 2024, 08:32:28 am »
Thanks to everyone who came out, or watched on line, tonight's debate. Pretty disappointing on many levels, but hopefully still useful despite that.  I will be establishing a new rule for all future debates (seriously): If you must read your opening statement, fine.  However, rebuttals and closing statements SHOULD reflect the actual debate as it is taking place.  Having your rebuttals and closing statements written out beforehand simply means you are not debating; you are just there to make a presentation that will be interrupted by the other guy once in a while.  That's not debating. If you can't listen, take notes, and then interact (most people can't do that!), then maybe you should reconsider doing debates!  Flowers did it to me twice, Akin did it twice, and Tim Barber did it tonight---there won't be a "twice."  It is disrespectful to your opponent, to the topic, and to the audience.
78
New Board / The General Call
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 02, 2024, 11:36:19 pm »
A. Is God's general call sincere?

This is denied, upon the ground that such sincerity is incompatible, first, with the inability of the sinner to obey; and secondly, with the design of God to bestow only upon the elect the special grace without which they will not obey.

(a) To the first objection we reply that, since this inability is not a physical but a moral inability, consisting simply in the settled perversity of an evil will, there can be no insincerity in offering salvation to all, especially when the offer is in itself a proper motive to obedience.

God's call to all men to repent and to believe the gospel is no more insincere than his command to all men to love him with all the heart. There is no obstacle in the way of men's obedience to the gospel, that does not exist to prevent their obedience to the law. If it is proper to publish the commands of the law, it is proper to publish the invitations of the gospel. A human being may be perfectly sincere in giving an invitation which he knows will be refused. He may desire to have the invitation accepted, while yet he may, for certain reasons of justice or personal dignity, be unwilling to put forth special efforts, aside from the invitation itself, to secure the acceptance of it on the part of those to whom it is offered. So God's desires that certain men should be saved may not be accompanied by his will to exert special influences to save them.

hese desires were meant by the phrase "revealed will" in the old theologians; his purpose to bestow special grace, by the phrase "secret will." It is of the former that Paul speaks, in 1 Tim. 2:4 — "who would have all men to be saved." Here we have, not the active σωσαι, but the passive σωθηναι. The meaning is, not that God purposes to save all men, but that he desires all men to be saved through repenting and believing the gospel. Hence God's revealed will, or desire, that all men should be saved, is perfectly consistent with his secret will, or purpose, to bestow special grace only upon a certain number (see, on 1 Tim. 2:4, Fairbairn's Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles

The sincerity of God's call is shown, not only in the fact that the only obstacle to compliance, on the sinner's part, is the sinner's own evil will, but also in the fact that God has, at infinite cost, made a complete external provision, upon the ground of which "he that will" may "come" and "take of the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17); so that God can truly say: "What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it?" (Is. 5:4). Broadus, Com. on Mat. 6:10 — "Thy will be done" — distinguishes between God's will of purpose, of desire, and of command. H. B. Smith, Syst. Theol., 521 — "Common grace passes over into effectual grace in proportion as the sinner yields to the divine influence. Effectual grace is that which effects what common grace tends to effect." See also Studien und Kritiken, 1887:7 sq.

(b) To the second, we reply that the objection, if true, would equally hold against God's foreknowledge. The sincerity of God's general call is no more inconsistent with his determination that some shall be permitted to reject it, than it is with foreknowledge that some will reject it.

Hodge, Syst. Theol., 2:643—"Predestination concerns only the purpose of God to render effectual, in particular cases, a call addressed to all. A general amnesty, on the certain conditions, may be offered by a sovereign to rebellious subjects, although he knows that through pride or malice many will refuse to accept it; and even though, for wise reasons, he should determine not to constrain their assent, supposing that such influence over their minds were within his power. It is evident, from the nature of the call, that is has nothing to do with the secret purpose of God to grant his effectual grace to some, and not to others. . . . According to the Augustinian scheme, the non-elect have all the advantages and opportunities of securing their salvation, which, according to any other scheme, are granted to mankind indiscriminately. . . . . God designed, in its adoption, to save his own people, but he consistently offers its benefits to all who are willing to receive them." See also H. B. Smith, System of Christian Theology, 515–521.
A. H. Strong, Systematic Theology (Old Tapppan, NJ: Revell, 1979), 791–7
79
New Board / John Murray
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 02, 2024, 11:22:07 pm »
ezk18=
Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God? (Ezek 18:23)

God wants all people to obey his summons to repent and believe the gospel, and so be saved (Acts 17:30; Ezek. 18:23).  In light of this, the church is called to preach the gospel indiscriminately to all people ... to the ends of the earth (Matt 28:18). But sadly, all men without exception have a heart of stone, and in their willful blindness, turn a deaf ear and refuse to believe and follow Christ (Rom 3:11, 8:7; 1 Cor 2:14). He has no pleasure in seeing a humanity so unyielding and inflexible in their rebellion against Him.This saddens God and indeed angers Him. But even though all natural men reject this call to faith in Christ, God is yet still merciful. Instead of giving all of us what we justly deserve (His wrath), He still gives life and pardons more ill-deserving sinners than any man can count (Eph. 2:5; Rev. 7:9).

If God simply left us all to our "free will" as our Arminian friends contend, then none would be saved (Rom 9:16; John 3:19). None. This is because no man is naturally wiser than another (1 Cor 1:29, 30) but all men are equally captive to the flesh and unwilling to come to Christ. So leaving us to our so-called "free will" would actually the worst judgment God could possibly give a person - and yet this is precisely what He does to many of the self-seeking. (Rom 2:8) But Jesus' work on the cross is so complete and sufficient for us that He was willing to do FOR US what we are unwilling to do for ourselves ... giving us EVERYTHING we need for salvation, not only offering pardon to all that come to Him for life, but quickening to life all those the Father has given Him (John 6:63, 65, 37) that we would come to Him for life. It is incorrect to assume that if we are commanded to do something it is possible for us to accomplish it. When we, by grace, begin to understand what we cannot do (obey, repent, believe) we humbled before God who alone has the power to supply a new heart to believe (Ephesians 2:5,8) eyes to see and ears to hear (Deut 29:4, 30:6; Romans 9:16).

As Augustine once aptly said, "In some places God requires newness of heart [Ezek 18:31]. But elsewhere he testifies that it is given by him [Ezek. 11:19; 36:26]. But what God promises we ourselves do not do through choice or nature; but he himself does through grace."

In this world, some get justice and some get mercy. But no one gets injustice.


 
80
General Discussion / Re: Joe Boot on x
« Last post by Iconoclast on August 02, 2024, 03:17:01 pm »
Men masquerading as women at the Olympics punching women in the face, breaking their nose & ending the boxing fight in 47 seconds. They must be so proud. Toss these cowards in the mens event & see how many seconds they last.

Astonishing double standards, as in a show of force, Islamists shut down London in rush hour without notice. If this were a march for St George’s Day it would have been shut down by force. Muslims are allowed to do as they please. This is Islamization.
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